NBA and Christian Hip-Hop: Living for Jesus | The Rooted in Christ Podcast Ep. 212

[2 Speakers Detected] [Total Utterances: 380]

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[0:00 -> 0:01] Speaker 1: You are never too far away from Christ.

[0:01 -> 0:01] Speaker 2: Never.

[0:01 -> 0:38] Speaker 1: Ever. Like, that's my saying. I need to put that on a shirt, like, and actually get it tattooed, because that's a slogan that I live by, bro. Like, that's the— I feel like that's one of the biggest misconceptions. I feel like that's how the enemy tricks us, is with condemnation, not conviction. It's a difference. Conviction and condemnation are 2 different things. I feel like a lot of times when people sin, the enemy comes in and makes them feel like they're too far away from God. Um, to come back. And I feel like also when we go to church sometime, we look at the pastor again because he's on this stage and it makes us feel like we're so far away that why should we even try to get there?

[0:38 -> 0:57] Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Rooted in Christ Podcast. My name is Eric Stevens, the founder of Redwood Christian Ministries. When I tell you we don't have enough time today to talk to these 2 brothers, My brother from the Detroit Pistons, Isaac Jones. What's going on, bro?

[0:57 -> 0:58] Speaker 1: What's going on?

[0:58 -> 0:59] Speaker 2: And we already know.

[0:59 -> 1:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[1:00 -> 1:06] Speaker 2: He said it in episode 200. You never know when you gonna see him pop back up. Part 2 with DKG Kai. My brother, what's going on?

[1:06 -> 1:06] Speaker 1: My guy.

[1:06 -> 1:12] Speaker 2: Look, we just had a show last night. We all tired, losing our voices.

[1:12 -> 1:12] Speaker 1: Bro.

[1:12 -> 1:19] Speaker 2: Okay. Shout out to Summer Glory. What a, man, what a great event, man. How y'all feeling after that?

[1:20 -> 1:22] Speaker 1: Man, great. I had a lot of fun.

[1:22 -> 1:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[1:23 -> 1:31] Speaker 1: I don't know. I was turned up that show. Yeah. Same, same. Definitely same with me. It was, I'm tired, but being this tired after a show is a good sign.

[1:31 -> 1:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

[1:31 -> 1:33] Speaker 1: That was lit. I ain't gonna lie.

[1:33 -> 1:59] Speaker 2: I wanna tap in, 'cause I know I don't have y'all for too long. I appreciate both of you even being here to do the show. But I really wanna touch base with both of you to talk about like your respective industries. You know, 'cause obviously you always hear people say things like the basketball players wanna be rappers. The rappers wanna be basketball players, but you can't hoop. Like, let me put this out there right now. Like, it's the truth. I don't want no smoke out here with either one of you.

[1:59 -> 2:00] Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.

[2:00 -> 2:00] Speaker 2: No trolling.

[2:00 -> 2:01] Speaker 1: No trolling. Okay.

[2:01 -> 2:05] Speaker 2: It's different for you. Okay. You not everyday basketball player.

[2:05 -> 2:17] Speaker 1: For sure. I'm glad you said that. 'Cause everybody and they mama, since I've been rapping, they've been thinking I've been capping. So it's, yeah, whatever. Go on that Instagram. Yeah, it's real. I ain't gonna lie, bro.

[2:17 -> 2:23] Speaker 2: I saw your last event and I'm like, dog, who hurt you? You, you, you, some of those dunks look real Detroit. You know what I'm saying?

[2:23 -> 2:23] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[2:23 -> 2:25] Speaker 2: They look real like, man.

[2:25 -> 2:26] Speaker 1: He real aggressive when he dunk.

[2:26 -> 2:28] Speaker 2: I saw that. I saw that. Rim felt that too.

[2:28 -> 2:29] Speaker 1: I'm trying to take it off every time.

[2:29 -> 2:31] Speaker 2: You, that was success.

[2:31 -> 2:32] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[2:32 -> 2:37] Speaker 2: But I really wanna talk about like the overlap in music, the overlap in sports because we do see it.

[2:37 -> 2:37] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[2:37 -> 2:47] Speaker 2: But let's kick it off here. When did like following Jesus for you become not just something you said, but something you really started to live out and then you saw the change and impact it had on your life? Whoever wants to go first.

[2:47 -> 3:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll take it. That's a good question. So growing up for me, I grew up, a lot of people know this, but my parents are pastors and they didn't have their own church, but they were pastors in another, under another pastor's vision. So I was definitely the basketball player that was, Living one way in school and then going to church 3, sometimes 4 times a week and being the church boy. And I had a relationship with Christ through my parents.

[3:16 -> 3:17] Speaker 2: Mmhmm.

[3:17 -> 3:54] Speaker 1: Which a lot of young kids do. But by the time I got to, I wanna say like 19, that was what really changed my life. Like going through some traumatic experiences and losing my cousin and knowing that I was supposed to be there and not losing my life, like, that really made me wake up. And that was the first time that I really said, like, it's time for me to really find out who God is for myself and not just through my mom and them. 'Cause, like, your parents can pray for you and you could definitely survive off your parents' prayers and your grandparents' prayers and all that. But it does come a time as an adult that you have to find that relationship for yourself.

[3:54 -> 3:55] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[3:55 -> 4:15] Speaker 1: And truly understand who God is because people can, growing up, like, I've had people describe God to me and tell me who God is through they lens, but it's nothing like figuring out who he is specifically to you and doing that study on your own. So that was definitely mine around like 19, 20 years old.

[4:15 -> 4:22] Speaker 2: You need to have that personal relationship. Like, it needs to become real to you. Like, we need to live it out in community, but I need to be able to, like, this is what he did in my life.

[4:22 -> 4:23] Speaker 1: 100%.

[4:23 -> 4:34] Speaker 2: 'Cause he may have healed somebody else that we know, from cancer. But if I'm not in that situation, you know what I'm saying? I can have some level of empathy to this, but that may not necessarily make him real to me.

[4:34 -> 5:04] Speaker 1: 100%. Yeah. I would say my story's kind of similar too, 'cause I grew up in church and my mom is a pastor, but it didn't, it really didn't hit me till I got to college. I mean, if I didn't meet my now wife, I don't think, I definitely wouldn't have the same relationship I have with God. So I really shout out her and shout out my old teammate, Jay Mullins, bro, 'cause he just, pushed me. That last year is where I really grew closer to him and your music, bro. That's why I tell you all the time, really actually helped me.

[5:04 -> 5:04] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[5:04 -> 5:14] Speaker 1: But yeah, I didn't, I didn't have nothing until really I got to college and started leaning on him literally right before the season like ended and entered the draft and all that.

[5:14 -> 5:25] Speaker 2: How has being a follower of Christ, being a Christian really kind of changed the way like you look at your platform and the opportunities that God has given you, especially just based off your past experience?

[5:25 -> 5:46] Speaker 1: Um, well, I mean, in my space, bro, like, everybody's watching you at all times. And once I learned that— I mean, I knew, I knew that coming in. Uh, I'm not the most talkative person, so I knew I had to stand out somehow to spread the gospel. And, uh, I knew with all the eyes on me that for me it's clothes. Like, I wear clothes all the time.

[5:46 -> 5:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[5:47 -> 5:55] Speaker 1: And, uh, so I'm trying to be a light in a dark space, but as a person that doesn't talk that much I had to go clothes. I had to make statements that way to start conversations and get people reeled in.

[5:55 -> 6:00] Speaker 2: Has that kind of pushed people away from you in the locker room space? Like, is that—

[6:00 -> 6:16] Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. I could tell some people, like, they don't really, they don't live the same way. So they try to, like, stay away from me. I mean, like, everybody talks to me. Like, my teammates are all good to me, but I'm definitely looked at differently. I could definitely feel it, so.

[6:16 -> 6:18] Speaker 2: I'm gonna tap back into how you handling that.

[6:18 -> 6:18] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[6:18 -> 6:22] Speaker 2: That's a whole nother conversation. I'm gonna tap back into that. Yeah.

[6:22 -> 6:42] Speaker 1: I feel like, I feel like for me, obviously being a Christian rapper, people think that, you know, it goes, what's the word I'm looking for? People think it's a given that you live for Christ and you post these things about God. Like for me, spreading the gospel is easy because of what I do.

[6:42 -> 6:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[6:42 -> 7:07] Speaker 1: All of my music is talking about God. Obviously my clothing brand is, literally changed my name to Disciple. gospel, kingdom gospel. Like, for me, it's easy to spread the gospel that way. But I think the most important thing is, I think what we missing in this, I know what we missing in this space is authenticity of loving Christ. There's a lot of, like, I literally just got a call last night about some crazy stuff that was like, what are we doing?

[7:07 -> 7:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[7:08 -> 7:40] Speaker 1: Like, in this space, we have to, it's a lot of Christian artists and Christian influencers who, are talking one way on social media and then living another way behind the scenes. And there's no judgment to 'em. I pray for 'em. I'm not finna be around here, you know, bashing nobody or anything like that. But for me, that was the biggest thing for me because it's funny, a lot of being behind the scenes, I've seen a lot of artists who are very, very mainstream, very big. And then I'll go behind the scenes and it's like, I look at their life and it look different.

[7:40 -> 7:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[7:41 -> 7:57] Speaker 1: So for me, with me being the guy who's controversial, who came out killing demons and Christian Drill and all that, it's like, okay, if I'm gonna get all this hate and death threats and all this stuff from people about my image, the best thing that I can do is at least make sure I'm actually living this.

[7:57 -> 7:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[7:58 -> 8:10] Speaker 1: So you seeing one thing on my social media, but my major thing is to make sure that I'm living it. And people, I think what really helps me is that when people meet me in person, It's a difference between social media and in person.

[8:10 -> 8:11] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[8:11 -> 8:26] Speaker 1: Because I pray every day, even like last night at the show, like bro, I told you I ain't had sleep in like probably 2, 3 months. But even being tired, I wanted to make, I made it a thing to make sure like when any of these people meet me, I want them to feel the love of Christ.

[8:26 -> 8:26] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[8:26 -> 8:42] Speaker 1: And I feel like that makes all the difference because you could be the biggest Christian rapper, but if people meet you and you're not a good person and they can't feel Jesus radiating from you, that's not okay. Because at that point, you just doing music for money. You should be a secular rapper at that point.

[8:42 -> 8:48] Speaker 2: Yeah. We can't be doing this for the gain, 'cause then you just basically running in place.

[8:48 -> 8:48] Speaker 1: 100%.

[8:48 -> 8:54] Speaker 2: It's the very— like, trying to be a celebrity in this, like, it's the very definition of hustling backwards.

[8:54 -> 8:54] Speaker 1: 100%.

[8:54 -> 8:56] Speaker 2: Like, this is a story of one.

[8:56 -> 8:56] Speaker 1: Yep.

[8:56 -> 9:08] Speaker 2: Okay? Like, I don't believe there are celebrities in the Christian space, but I get it. There's tours, there's music, there's lights, there's contracts, there's business need to get Just because it looks that way though, that doesn't mean I have to carry myself that way.

[9:08 -> 9:08] Speaker 1: 100%. Yep.

[9:08 -> 9:11] Speaker 2: Because God can shut all this down tomorrow.

[9:11 -> 9:11] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[9:11 -> 9:12] Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

[9:12 -> 9:12] Speaker 1: Or right now.

[9:12 -> 9:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, like literally right now. I pray, like, you know, I pray these lights don't go out right now. 'Cause I still gotta pay for this. But like, we still gonna get charged. But yeah, I mean, like you, you were at Beyond, like you headlined Beyond the Walls last year. You know what I mean? So it's, he could say to somebody, hey, this is the last year for this. I have to be okay with that. 'Cause I have to then do and move with what he's telling me.

[9:31 -> 9:32] Speaker 1: 100%.

[9:32 -> 9:37] Speaker 2: To do and move. You know, 'cause we have to be okay with whatever God is saying in that season. This is his.

[9:37 -> 9:37] Speaker 1: Yep.

[9:37 -> 9:39] Speaker 2: You know, I can't get caught up in thinking like, oh, this is about Eric.

[9:39 -> 9:40] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[9:40 -> 9:50] Speaker 2: And you gotta pray against that. You know what I mean? Like consciously make sure like, I'm doing this unto you. That's where the praying and fasting, especially the fasting piece, always comes in for me.

[9:50 -> 9:52] Speaker 1: Yep. Yep.

[9:52 -> 10:05] Speaker 2: What similarities have you two seen? 'Cause I know y'all are best friends like behind the scenes. Like this is not even a joke. Like, what similarities have you seen in both your respective fields of being at, athlete in the NBA and then being a Christian artist?

[10:05 -> 10:14] Speaker 1: You can start it. Bet. Without going too deep into it and exposing a bunch of stuff that happened behind the scenes.

[10:14 -> 10:16] Speaker 2: Please don't.

[10:16 -> 10:23] Speaker 1: Without going too deep in it, it's just like, it's like stuff we was talking about last night with, it's like even with us being husbands.

[10:23 -> 10:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[10:24 -> 10:29] Speaker 1: Our goal is to serve Christ, but also we have a responsibility to take care of our families.

[10:29 -> 10:30] Speaker 2: For sure.

[10:31 -> 10:44] Speaker 1: So it's constantly a thing of like, our jobs are very nerve-wracking because for me, if the label reach out and they don't give me a good contract, I can't feed my family.

[10:44 -> 10:45] Speaker 2: Right.

[10:45 -> 11:03] Speaker 1: Or if the album flops or X, Y, and Z, I can't feed my family. And then I feel like it's the same thing even with the NBA, like based on contracts or like you was telling me, If you sign with the wrong agent, like you could be the best player ever, but if you sign with the wrong agent, you're cooked.

[11:03 -> 11:03] Speaker 2: Cooked.

[11:03 -> 11:16] Speaker 1: We've seen that. And it's the same thing in my space where I've seen artists who have signed the wrong record deal and you see it all the time where it's like, oh, this artist popping. And all of a sudden they sign and it's like, oh man, that person about to be on. Then you don't hear about them.

[11:16 -> 11:16] Speaker 2: Where they go.

[11:16 -> 11:40] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? So definitely the one thing I'll speak on, I'll let Ahrii go next, but I ain't gonna hold you. Even talking to like us 3 were talking last night, our life is literally like this. He just dribble a basketball and I rap. Like it's, everything is almost the same. It's just 2 respective sports. But it's a lot of similarities even with being the underdog in our space.

[11:40 -> 11:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[11:40 -> 12:46] Speaker 1: He was a late bloomer and I'm sure he'll talk about this as well, but he was a late bloomer going in his space. He wasn't the guy that people really expected to go to the league. I wasn't, bro, I didn't have a musical bone in my body whatsoever until the age of 23. That just randomly happened. Don't know where it came from, but it just popped off to the point where even people I went to school with, people from my neighborhood and stuff like that, they still to this day can't believe I'm the one. Some of the guys who was playing in the game, in the All-Star Game with us last weekend, they still can't believe I'm the one that got married. I'm the one that is telling them, hey, this is a family event. Don't be in here cussing. Like, they can't believe that it was me, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, I would— those are the things I speak on, but it's very similar. And then another thing I would point to is that it's kind of similar in the fact that— so every year we have a draft, that's 60 new people coming to take my spot. Yeah. And every year there's new rappers. So it's like, it's hard to find the balance of like, I would say like competing but keeping it like brotherly love, especially as a Christian. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, that that dude that's coming in is trying to take what I got.

[12:46 -> 12:47] Speaker 2: Yep.

[12:47 -> 12:59] Speaker 1: And, uh, yeah, I think it's hard and it, it like, I can't, well, how do I say this? Hold on a second. Like even my coaches tell me like, I need to bring that, like, save, not soft.

[12:59 -> 12:59] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[12:59 -> 13:08] Speaker 1: But, um, it's just hard to navigate that because I'm just a nice person. I know he is too, but people be trying us and, uh, it's definitely about how we respond.

[13:08 -> 13:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.

[13:10 -> 13:18] Speaker 1: But yeah, man, I feel like we are so similar that even if we switched, like, and I started rapping, he started hooping, it would be like nothing changed.

[13:18 -> 13:20] Speaker 2: Nothing changed.

[13:20 -> 13:21] Speaker 1: 100%. For sure.

[13:21 -> 13:46] Speaker 2: How do you navigate those waters with those contracts and those agents? 'Cause I think I was looking at ESPN one day and I remember Terrell Owens was talking about that. He was driving the same car for most of his career and people around the league would say like he wasn't living this extravagant life, but his agent took the majority of his money. Like, how do y'all navigate like this contract situation or even with the agents? Like, how do you know who to pick, who to go with, what to say yes to, what to say no to?

[13:46 -> 14:04] Speaker 1: That was probably one of the hardest decisions I made. But so like when I was going into the draft, I knew that I was potentially like a late 2nd round undrafted type of guy. And me and my wife made good connections with like smaller agencies. But I knew that they couldn't get the job done.

[14:04 -> 14:05] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[14:05 -> 14:46] Speaker 1: And luckily I had guidance with my mentor and he knew some people. And so we prayed a lot, asked God for discernment. But like, I had to lock in with a bigger agency for the position I was at. But I mean, I've seen it like it's happened to my friends. A lot of people I know just went with the wrong agent and then either they're overseas in a league that they don't belong in and they're killing that league or they're, they're nowhere because of the agent. So it's I think is one of the most important things outside of your skills and just how you carry yourself in the NBA. Your agent is next up right there. 'Cause it can put you in a good situation, a bad situation. It just, it's really like, here's your career and your agent's gonna take you here or down.

[14:46 -> 14:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[14:47 -> 15:47] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for me it's the same thing. I've had, I've been a part of business situations and partnerships and stuff like that that went sour. And I think it was because when I got in this space, because it's a Christian space, I'm thinking that the Christians are gonna be Christian. And that's not the case a lot of times. It's like, you know, you know personally about a situation that I had been through. And I think too, it's like, especially when we talking business and we talking money and stuff like that, like I'm at a place where now because I'm worth something, because I bring something to the table, I'm believing in like keeping everything in-house right now. Keeping everything in the family. Like my wife is the person who handles my finances. She helps me negotiate my shows. And then when I go throw shows, like last weekend, the show we threw, literally Isaac, his wife, and one of they homegirls, and my wife was the ones that was running everything.

[15:47 -> 15:48] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:48 -> 16:15] Speaker 1: And if I need help, you know, I know my mom and them gonna help. And then now you, Breaking news, Eric is also my booking agent right now. So if you wanna get at me, come to Eric. But yeah, like just keeping everything in-house because you can't be naive and think that just because people label it Christian, like I'm right now, we not gonna say the name, but I'm literally in a battle right now with a Christian label to get 6 figures. That's owed to me.

[16:15 -> 16:15] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[16:15 -> 16:27] Speaker 1: And this is a Christian label. So it's like, like I said, it's just more so too, I feel like artists, I'll make this short. Artists have to stop jumping at the first thing that come.

[16:27 -> 16:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[16:27 -> 17:08] Speaker 1: Because we even see in the Bible, that go for not just artists, basketball players, whoever, don't jump at the first thing. Make sure that you praying, you meditating, you talking to your people. Because we even see in the Bible that Ishmael came before Isaac when it came to Abraham's children. So it's like, yeah, God promised you, that you was gonna have a child, but he didn't say to do it in the way that you did. He said he was gonna bring you a child, not that you were gonna, you know what I'm saying, make that happen. So when Abraham made it happen, Ishmael comes, which was really a distraction, but God ended up bringing Isaac after that. So that's something that I remind myself constantly of, like, ooh, this might— like, I just got off a label call probably a week ago.

[17:08 -> 17:08] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[17:08 -> 17:24] Speaker 1: And it sounded good. Like, they— everything that they was talking was really, really good. But at the same time, I've been through this enough to say, you know what? Let me sit back and not jump at this right now. Let me actually really, really meditate. 'Cause again, like we said earlier, signing a wrong deal can really put you in a bad situation.

[17:24 -> 17:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[17:24 -> 17:37] Speaker 1: Like even with that label that I'm fighting right now, it's nothing but God that I've released so much music that my money is good regardless. It's just hurtful that you got 6 figures in my bread.

[17:37 -> 17:37] Speaker 2: Right.

[17:37 -> 17:54] Speaker 1: But thanks be to God for covering to still be, you know, okay. But if I would've never, if I wouldn't have signed that deal, can't cry over spilled milk, I would've never signed that deal with them people, there's no telling where I would be at right now. Like, you know what I'm saying? In my career and financially. So yeah, you gotta be careful. Don't jump at the first thing.

[17:54 -> 18:02] Speaker 2: Yeah. What are some things about either one of your, like, respected industries specifically that Christians may not even understand?

[18:02 -> 18:36] Speaker 1: Um, just how how hard it can get, like, for to be a Christian in my space. Like, it's not a Christian organization by any means whatsoever, and there's not a lot, like, of true genuine Christians. Um, sometimes it could feel like it's you versus the world. I mean, it's you and God versus— for me, it's me and God versus the NBA. And just trying to be that light in that darkness is a lot harder than what people think. That's what I would say. I had a—

[18:36 -> 18:47] Speaker 2: I don't wanna say his name, but I had another freshman athlete. He was telling me, he said, I treat this like a 9-to-5 job. He's like, this is how I go to work. This is how I eat.

[18:47 -> 18:47] Speaker 1: Yep.

[18:47 -> 19:04] Speaker 2: Practice just happens to be my workout. So I don't gotta go to the gym usually afterwards. And I go back home to my family and I'm still taking the trash out, still washing dishes. He's like, I just don't get caught up in that nightlife and everything else. so he can honor God, similar to how you were saying, even saying earlier.

[19:04 -> 19:05] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[19:05 -> 19:25] Speaker 2: So like, that's, that was what he was sharing. And I said, that makes total sense. I was like, I'm going to try to follow this blueprint as best, because even in that entrepreneur space, your schedule changes all the time. Like, like even, even in the last 2 days, the last 48 hours, my whole schedule has been completely changed. It's not a, not, it's not a true 9-to-5 position.

[19:25 -> 19:25] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[19:25 -> 19:30] Speaker 2: But I have to move in the way you were talking about is honoring God, honoring my, honoring my wife. Same thing.

[19:30 -> 19:46] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for me, what people, like common misconceptions about my space is that I see a lot of people get into music or like, I ain't gonna say who in my family had this misconception, but since I've been, matter of fact, I will. Shout out my dad.

[19:46 -> 19:48] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[19:48 -> 21:15] Speaker 1: Like my dad, he knew it was hard work to do this, but because my dad is such a blue collar hard worker, and like entrepreneur, hard worker. Shout out to him for teaching me my work ethic. But because he worked so hard, it was hard for him to kind of see what I was doing and register that as hard work. 'Cause it looks fun. Like what I'm posting, it don't look like work. Like it looked like I just get to go to shows and be on stage with fans and be in the studio. Right. So, you know, him coming to the studio with me and stuff like that, he was able to see like, Oh, it's way more to this than just doing a song and putting it out. So I think even Isaac being behind the scenes, he can see now, like even my wife, like the misconception is that you just go to the studio, you have fun, you make a song, you drop it, and then it blows up if it's good. That's not true. That's not true. Like I have, bro, I got so many songs right now that are out that are great songs, but I probably made the mistake of not promoting it the right way or not promoting it enough. So with my job, it's the same thing. Like I have to make a schedule. every single day. And if I don't, I can fall off. If I don't, I can get comfortable. So every day it's like I have to wake up. Like, my days normally go something like this: wake up, pray, go to the gym, come back home, eat, immediately back on music stuff. So I have to force myself to work on music for at least 6 to 7 hours.

[21:15 -> 21:15] Speaker 2: Mmhmm.

[21:15 -> 21:47] Speaker 1: That could look like— that can look like recording. That could look like me going to do content shoots. And I shoot my own content. and edit it. So now I gotta come back, I gotta shoot the content sometimes by myself if my wife busy and my cameraman busy. So I'm going location scouting, shooting the content, coming back home, editing the content. Then I gotta go record a song, you know what I'm saying? Then I gotta make business calls to make sure I'm staying on top of, hey, when is this show coming in? When is this going? Um, and it's multiple different platforms that you gotta post on. And TikTok, they want you to post 3 to 4 times a day now.

[21:47 -> 21:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm aware. That's why I have no followers. Yeah.

[21:50 -> 22:08] Speaker 1: So when I tell you, like, my wife was so surprised at how busy I am, Because of it, like I said, it just looked like it's just fun. You go do your music and get off. But no, that's not how this goes whatsoever. If you don't, especially just as an entrepreneur in general, if you don't, like you said, treat this as a 9 to 5, you're gonna fail.

[22:08 -> 22:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[22:08 -> 22:21] Speaker 1: 100%. Especially doing this as an independent artist. You have to work like probably I would say 5 times harder than most people if you wanna make it. And I think that's why I'm so successful. And that's also why I'm always very sleepy.

[22:21 -> 22:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[22:21 -> 22:24] Speaker 1: 100% for sure.

[22:24 -> 22:28] Speaker 2: Bro, some of the stuff that you told me just about like promoters booking all of that.

[22:28 -> 22:29] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:29 -> 22:37] Speaker 2: Like you have no idea how many people you've actually helped because you told me that. Because I've given that knowledge to other promoters. I'm like, look, this is how you should really structure your payments.

[22:37 -> 22:38] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:38 -> 22:42] Speaker 2: Make sure you're reading the riders. Make sure you're reading the contracts before you sign this.

[22:42 -> 22:42] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[22:42 -> 22:45] Speaker 2: If you have questions, you need to ask them upfront.

[22:45 -> 22:45] Speaker 1: 100%.

[22:45 -> 22:49] Speaker 2: Put them in an email. Write down like track, All of it.

[22:49 -> 22:50] Speaker 1: That's what I— not to cut you off.

[22:50 -> 22:50] Speaker 2: No, you're good.

[22:50 -> 22:57] Speaker 1: That's what I wanna say too. I'm glad you brought that up. That's the last thing I'll say as far as any artist out there that's listening. Do your homework.

[22:57 -> 22:58] Speaker 2: Come on.

[22:58 -> 23:41] Speaker 1: Do your homework on this. Like, study the game because that's how a lot of people— like, it's misconceptions that the only way that you can make money off your music is by streaming. And that's not the truth. Like, I had to do my homework and realize like, I'm missing out. Like, when you drop a song, you get paid from, let's just say you drop on DistroKid, that's your distributor. You get paid from DistroKid, but you also can get paid from BMI and ASCAP. Um, you can get paid from MLC, which is mechanical licensing. Um, you can also get paid from SoundExchange. You can get paid from Songtrust. Like, it's so many different— it's literally like I probably have— no, exactly, this ain't braggadocious, this is just me showing you I did the work. I probably have 8 different streams of income coming off of just one song.

[23:41 -> 23:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[23:42 -> 24:13] Speaker 1: But again, you have to do your homework. And then same thing with the editing and stuff like that. Stop waiting on a cameraman to come pull up. Invest in yourself. I have my own cameras, I have my own lights, I have my own rigs, I have my own tripods. Like, you have to really study this game in that way too. A label can't just come to you and say, hey, we're going to give you this in XYZ. No. Like, I've had multiple labels offer me over 6 figures for my catalog, but because I did the homework, I realized that whatever that number is that they just gave me, my catalog is actually probably worth times 5.

[24:13 -> 24:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[24:13 -> 24:42] Speaker 1: So why would I give you that for, you know, less than a profit? But again, like that goes into doing the work and researching your craft and not just thinking just because you're a good rapper, you gonna make it. It's too oversaturated. You being a good rapper don't mean nothing no more. And I'm sure it's probably the same in the league. Like where I know people, I know people personally who have the talent to be in the league and just probably just didn't do the prerequisites. You know what I'm saying? To get there. And I'm sure you, No, the same type of people. So 100%.

[24:42 -> 25:03] Speaker 2: There's like a slight undertone here. So I wanna, I wanna ask this question now to like, how do you deal with like the anger, the frustration, the irritation, the like the lack of consistency, the, the, the unintended character flaws, whatever. Like how do you deal with that when this stuff comes up and not crash out? The not crash out part is for you.

[25:03 -> 25:05] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[25:06 -> 25:09] Speaker 2: No, it's a family affair up here right now.

[25:09 -> 25:27] Speaker 1: It's definitely tough. I try to like, for me, I just try to like distract myself, like, and go get my mind off of it. So I'm gonna go hang out with my wife. I'm gonna go in the game where I'm allowed to crash out. I mean, he was at my house and the first time he ever saw me crash out was because of the game.

[25:27 -> 25:28] Speaker 2: 100%.

[25:28 -> 25:30] Speaker 1: And he's like, I didn't know you had that in you.

[25:32 -> 25:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:32 -> 25:53] Speaker 1: And especially with like the NBA, so there's so many ups and downs that can really mess up your mental. Like you can go from playing to not playing. You could be playing but play bad. Oh man. Yeah. So I just try to distract myself and do something fun and get away from it a little bit. But eventually I gotta find something I can crash out with.

[25:53 -> 25:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:53 -> 26:01] Speaker 1: 100%. I think for me, like the natural side of it is like, Bro, I gotta go to the gym and let this out.

[26:01 -> 26:02] Speaker 2: I was about, yeah.

[26:02 -> 26:17] Speaker 1: Like, I box, man. So it's like, even though I'm not hitting a person, it's like just being able to go and just let them punches off and them combos out. Like, it just, that's my way of like, okay, let me let this out in a healthy way. And then like I just said, like playing a game.

[26:17 -> 26:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[26:18 -> 26:31] Speaker 1: Is a way to distract me. And then of course, like being with my wife and focusing on things that actually matter. Because I feel like sometimes we get caught up in like the social media aspect of stuff where the internet is not even a real place.

[26:31 -> 26:31] Speaker 2: It's not.

[26:31 -> 27:02] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? It's like, and then too, it's like at the end of the day, God forbid if music went away, who gonna be there is my wife, right? My people that's closest to me, my parents. Like, that's what really matters. Yeah. Um, so being able to focus on that, because this space, especially in my space, bro, it would definitely anger you. Like, people are not who they say they are. People will snake you. I just told somebody last night, like, in this space, I came into it thinking that because we all brothers in Christ, we gonna build genuine relationships and X, Y, and Z. It's not that, bro. It's business.

[27:02 -> 27:02] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:02 -> 27:13] Speaker 1: And I had to understand that and realize, like, people aren't gonna be loyal to you. They don't owe you no loyalty. They looking at you as a dollar sign. And when they can't get nothing else from you, don't expect to hear from 'em no more.

[27:13 -> 27:14] Speaker 2: Bro.

[27:14 -> 27:35] Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just really coming to that understanding. But that's why I really, I'm very grateful for my wife. Shout out to her for just keeping me levelheaded. And also these 2 right here, IJ and Malia, they will, like, we just had this talk yesterday. IJ won't let me be mad, like, ever. Like, he's that friend.

[27:35 -> 27:36] Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, yeah.

[27:36 -> 27:38] Speaker 1: Like, literally at my basketball games.

[27:38 -> 27:39] Speaker 2: I really appreciate that. You have no idea.

[27:39 -> 27:57] Speaker 1: Bro, at the All-Star Game last weekend, something popped off where I knew I had the right to be angry. Yeah, like, I have the— it's a valid crash if I crash. This man will literally look at me, and I told him yesterday, it's worse because he like 5 to 6— he about 5 to 6 inches taller than me.

[27:57 -> 27:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[27:58 -> 28:16] Speaker 1: So I gotta look up to him while I'm explaining how mad I am, and he'll just look down at me like, it's not that serious, bro. Come on, bro. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, it definitely happened. People— I said, we laughing, but in all, all jokes aside, it's important to have people around you that won't feed into that spirit of anger.

[28:16 -> 28:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:16 -> 28:34] Speaker 1: When, when it does come in, it would be the same thing. Like, if, if, if he on a rare day somehow felt like crashing out, I would have to— I would have the maturity enough to know, okay, nah, we ain't doing that. Like, let's— because if he— I ain't gonna lie, if I— if he gets to that point, oh, it's gonna get spooky.

[28:35 -> 28:36] Speaker 2: Never get there.

[28:36 -> 28:40] Speaker 1: Like, so yeah, nah, just having those people in your life that can talk you off that ledge.

[28:40 -> 28:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[28:40 -> 28:48] Speaker 1: 100%. And I was telling him like, when you doing something right, the devil gonna throw a little inconveniences and try to get you mad.

[28:48 -> 28:48] Speaker 2: Yep.

[28:48 -> 28:51] Speaker 1: Like, that's why always something always happens before you go on stage.

[28:51 -> 28:52] Speaker 2: Bro.

[28:52 -> 29:00] Speaker 1: And that's why I be telling her like, you can't let it get to you, bro. Like, we're finna go rock the stage, have fun, and it's gonna be a great night of worship. So yeah. 100%.

[29:00 -> 29:06] Speaker 2: I think it's important, probably even from where I'm sitting, to understand either the relationship aspect of it.

[29:06 -> 29:06] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[29:06 -> 29:10] Speaker 2: The business aspect of it. And knowing where you can mix the two.

[29:10 -> 29:10] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[29:10 -> 29:38] Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Because even with Beyond the Walls, it's not like I've discovered like all the friends I have once the flyer drops. Oh, that's, that's my, I love, I love that. That's like my favorite thing of all the people who call me after the flyer comes out. It's like, you know, this is the third flyer, by the way, you know? So, but not, but also not taking that personally to your point. You know what I mean? And then understanding like also too, maybe people just literally didn't see it. You know what I mean? But like understanding like how to really carry myself.

[29:38 -> 29:39] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[29:39 -> 29:54] Speaker 2: On the business side of it, not burn those bridges. But also like we didn't even touch on this. Like this is to your point, like my wife is actually completely behind the scenes at Beyond the Walls. She wishes I let her run the finances. I'm not there yet because I, but I need to hurry up and get there immediately.

[29:54 -> 29:54] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[29:54 -> 30:05] Speaker 2: I probably need to get my hands off of that. But like she does run a show at Beyond the Walls. She does the hospitality stuff. at the show. Like, we are 100% a team in that whole thing.

[30:05 -> 30:06] Speaker 1: Yep.

[30:06 -> 30:13] Speaker 2: But understanding, like, that's what I'm about to go home to. Again, if God shut this down, that's not getting shut down.

[30:13 -> 30:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[30:14 -> 30:38] Speaker 2: But then understanding too, like, we pray and we fast about how are we supposed to move through the nonprofit, through the new LLC, 'cause we just launched Redwood Christian Creative where we're doing booking for Christian hip-hop and R&B artists, where I'm doing life coaching, where she's teaching voice and piano lessons. So God, who do you— this is not our show. So God, who do you want on that stage? Who do you want in these seats? And I think sometimes people actually don't understand that.

[30:38 -> 30:38] Speaker 1: Right.

[30:38 -> 30:42] Speaker 2: I really don't think they understand. It's like, it is not up to me whether you perform Beyond the Walls or not.

[30:42 -> 30:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for real.

[30:43 -> 30:53] Speaker 2: Like, I went hungry for this to find out who was supposed to be there. God gave us a word just a week ago saying, protect the anointing of the next concert. And I said, dang.

[30:53 -> 30:53] Speaker 1: Yep.

[30:53 -> 30:55] Speaker 2: What am I either not seeing?

[30:55 -> 30:55] Speaker 1: Yep.

[30:55 -> 31:06] Speaker 2: Or what are you preparing me that I'm going to have to do for the future? So sometimes I think that we look at this so much as a business in order that we feel like, no, we're doing this unto him and I still got to be submitted to him in that way.

[31:06 -> 31:07] Speaker 1: 100%. 100%.

[31:09 -> 31:19] Speaker 2: So for whatever detail you can give on this, what is a struggle that you've experienced in your respective fields that have truly tested your faith? Yeah, that's why whatever, whatever you—

[31:19 -> 31:49] Speaker 1: we was just talking about this last night too. For me, Is, I would say confidence. Like, my confidence got shaken up a little bit going into the NBA. I'm not the same player I was in college. Like I was telling him, like in college, I was, confidence wasn't an issue for me at all. Like, I knew exactly what I was doing. I knew what spot I was getting to. I knew how I was getting there and I knew that they couldn't stop me. But then I come to the league, they're not paying IJ $40 million to score the ball.

[31:49 -> 31:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:50 -> 32:15] Speaker 1: You know, they're paying the stars for that. At first I couldn't understand it. So I like lost a little confidence. Like when I'm out there, I'm not moving the same. I'm not hooping the way that got me there, that made the scouts interested in me, the way that made my game unique. And yeah, I feel like that was probably one of the biggest things for me. 'Cause I'm a completely, completely different player when I'm playing with confidence.

[32:15 -> 32:15] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[32:15 -> 32:17] Speaker 1: Than when I'm just trying to like not mess up.

[32:17 -> 32:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[32:18 -> 32:19] Speaker 1: And that was hard for me.

[32:19 -> 32:36] Speaker 2: I wanna address this real quick too, because it's funny you said that, 'cause just this week my confidence took a serious hit. Because a bunch of the sponsors backed out from Beyond the Walls, right? And God used you to speak into my life to remind me that my normal is not normal.

[32:36 -> 32:37] Speaker 1: 100%.

[32:37 -> 32:49] Speaker 2: And like, after that I was like, yo, this is actually— but to the point about having brothers in Christ to be able to pick you up in those moments, I was sitting in my office at work and nobody would've known my confidence hit Absolute negative numbers.

[32:49 -> 32:49] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[32:49 -> 33:17] Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, and I'm more introverted than people realize. Like, I really am. The stuff that they see at Beyond the Walls and at the shows we do. And then even now, like, so when all that stuff started happening, this was just this week, my confidence hit. And then me and you hopped on the phone and you literally, God used you to speak into my life, saying things to me that nobody even knew I was going through like that, which was crazy. So to your point about it's important to have that, But it's so crazy you just said the whole confidence piece, 'cause that's literally where I was a few days ago.

[33:17 -> 33:53] Speaker 1: Yep. I think with me too, it's confidence is the word of the day, I guess. I think with me it's the same thing. It's like, you know, when I first came into this, I knew I was just starting out. So it wasn't like I was feeling like I was just the best rapper because I had to find my way. But once I did blow up, like around after the time of Christian drill music and I started trying different genres and different things and my confidence started rising. 'Cause I'm like, yo, lowkey, I'm listening to other people music and I think I'm better than some of these people in a respectful way.

[33:53 -> 33:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:54 -> 34:13] Speaker 1: Like, I feel like I could hang with the top of the top guys. Like, in all love to Lecrae, but it was like, even when we did that song and I heard my verse back and it, it like next to his, it's like, yo, I'm really, we there right there. Like, you know, at least on that side. Saying that I'm— 'cause y'all will clip this. I don't feel like getting in trouble today. I'm doing good.

[34:13 -> 34:14] Speaker 2: Remind me not to clip this. You feel me?

[34:15 -> 34:38] Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is like hearing that back was like, okay, I'm hanging with him on this song right now. It's like, just like a boxer. Like if I was to get in the ring with Floyd and somehow last for 12 rounds, that would boost the confidence of like, yeah, I'm not Floyd, but I can hold my own. You know? So I really went through a space of like, Once I started getting rejected.

[34:38 -> 34:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[34:38 -> 35:13] Speaker 1: From the mainstream Christian rap industry. And I started noticing like people started showing more love behind the scenes. And like I would have some of y'all favorite Christian rappers calling me behind the scenes telling me how good I was and how X, Y, and Z, but they wouldn't do music with me. Like still to this day, won't say anything about me in public. Don't wanna tarnish their image, I guess, which cool, it's business. That shot my confidence really bad to the point where in my head I'm like, I didn't understand that there's a difference between the mainstream Christian rap world and where I'm at. I'm thinking that we all just pushing the same gospel and—

[35:13 -> 35:13] Speaker 2: That's good.

[35:13 -> 35:27] Speaker 1: You know, whatever. So in my head I started thinking like, maybe I'm not good at this. Like, as I thought I was, like, maybe I'm not that good. When in reality it's not a matter of a skill gap, it's more so I'm called to a different group of people.

[35:27 -> 35:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[35:27 -> 35:36] Speaker 1: That's just what it is. Like, we was talking about this last night. Like, God will put you through certain things so that you could talk to certain crowds and certain groups of people with conviction.

[35:36 -> 35:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[35:37 -> 36:03] Speaker 1: So it would be hard for me to talk to a certain crowd about— like, me and Hovi can't have the same fan base because who he's reaching, I may not be able to reach. But it also goes on the flip side. Like, the people who was at that concert last night, I don't know if somebody, not just using him, but I don't know if somebody in that mainstream Christian rap world could have went to that show and really touched one of the people that was in that certain crowd.

[36:03 -> 36:03] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[36:03 -> 36:40] Speaker 1: Because of the background, because of the environment, because of the music. So yeah, my confidence definitely took a major, major shot, but I'm getting to the point again where it's like, nah, I'm really good at what I do. Like, God blessed me with an amazing talent and It's not a skill thing. It's just, I'm called to a different group of people. And I do believe that one day the two is gonna meet. We got a major— I'm not gonna say what it is, but a major person reached out yesterday morning. Shout out to Malia, 'cause, well, shout out to God. But yeah, Malia said something in an interview that sparked me to reach out to that person randomly. I'm gonna show you after.

[36:40 -> 36:41] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[36:41 -> 36:50] Speaker 1: And people not gonna believe, like, it's— I'm talking about totally polar opposite to rap and the streets. You would not believe me and this person could do a song together.

[36:50 -> 36:55] Speaker 2: So I think, I think it really is to your point. I think it's time to accept that we're one body in Christ.

[36:55 -> 36:56] Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

[36:56 -> 37:18] Speaker 2: And it's time to really accept that, walk in that, and then realize like we're called to be hands, feet, eyes, ears, whatever. And we're all not going to have that same, that same experience. And then being okay with it. I have to be okay with however many people this podcast, like this episode in general reaches. Versus other shows that might have millions of people.

[37:18 -> 37:18] Speaker 1: Right.

[37:18 -> 37:21] Speaker 2: Maybe I don't have that because God knows you can't handle this right now.

[37:21 -> 37:22] Speaker 1: That's, that's me.

[37:22 -> 37:38] Speaker 2: Or maybe, maybe that's never the plan. Maybe this podcast opened the doors that I've already seen it open. I don't know. I'm not going to limit God. That's right. That's one of my prayers. Or this is what I'm laying at your feet. I surrender this to you. Do this or do something greater.

[37:38 -> 37:38] Speaker 1: Right.

[37:39 -> 37:58] Speaker 2: And then having that attitude of that submission. But I think we need to all accept the fact like That platform is that person's platform. I can't look at that person's platform and say, I want this, I want to have this, because I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. I have no idea what sacrifices people are making through their obedience to what he's called them to do. I have no idea what's going on behind. I have no idea.

[37:58 -> 37:59] Speaker 1: Yep.

[37:59 -> 38:07] Speaker 2: I have no idea what that— those late nights and early mornings look like. But I do know what my late nights and early mornings look like. So that's why I encourage people, like, we can't look at the individual.

[38:07 -> 38:08] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[38:08 -> 38:20] Speaker 2: To be like, oh, I want what they have. No, you don't. You want what God has for you because that's where his blessing is. That's where his provision is. That is where the protection is. That is where everything you need is going to be at.

[38:20 -> 38:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. 100%. I'm really glad that you said that. I'm gonna touch on this quick, but I just wanna double back on the fact that you said sometimes like God may know if we can handle it or not.

[38:33 -> 38:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[38:34 -> 38:47] Speaker 1: Like, 'cause if I think back, to where I was like before I met my wife, if God would've gave me the level that I'm at right now back then, I was just telling them this, I don't know where I would be right now.

[38:47 -> 38:47] Speaker 2: Bro.

[38:47 -> 39:15] Speaker 1: I might be on TMZ. I might be on TMZ. Like, I legit don't know where I would be just because I don't know if I would've been able to handle it. And I'm sure you probably feel the same way. Like if God would've given you the finances, the platform and X, Y, and Z around that time when he was in college, it's like, where would we, you know, be at right now? So God, just, that's just a really good reminder of like, if you're not where you feel like you should be, don't blame God. Do a mirror check.

[39:15 -> 39:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[39:16 -> 39:40] Speaker 1: And see what's on the inside of you that needs to either leave or what needs to be put on the inside of you for you to go to that next level. So that's, yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah. And I, I could relate to that too, 'cause I mean, I don't know what my life would look like if I came outta high school being a 5-star, like for sure, first round pick. I don't think I would've developed that dependency on God like I have now. So yeah, I definitely relate to that.

[39:40 -> 39:50] Speaker 2: Bro, you give me Beyond the Walls 1 at the House of Blues in my 20s, there's no Beyond the Walls 2. There's no Beyond the Walls 2. It's not, there's definitely not gonna be a 3.

[39:50 -> 39:52] Speaker 1: Yeah. No trilogy.

[39:52 -> 39:59] Speaker 2: The bag is fumbled. Like guaranteed. I'm like, it would've— the heart posture was, let's not mess this up.

[39:59 -> 39:59] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[39:59 -> 40:06] Speaker 2: How do we, how do we not, how do we honor God through this? How do we make sure we get this right? Like we got Miles Minute coming. I have no idea what I'm doing.

[40:06 -> 40:07] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[40:07 -> 40:10] Speaker 2: I'm talking to everybody and they mom about how to run a show. 'Cause I just woke up and God said, here.

[40:10 -> 40:11] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[40:11 -> 40:31] Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So nah, it, it wouldn't happen. There would not be a part 2. So let me ask y'all this. So what is harder, being successful and staying humble or struggling and staying faithful? When I told you I didn't sleep last night 'cause I was working on this, I meant that. Yeah, you in your bag.

[40:31 -> 40:34] Speaker 1: You in your bag. Can you say that last one one more time?

[40:34 -> 40:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. So let's say, what's harder, being successful and staying humble or struggling and staying faithful?

[40:40 -> 40:55] Speaker 1: I think for me, struggling and staying faithful. 'Cause there's a lot of times through my journey where I was like, why is this happening to me?

[40:55 -> 40:57] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[40:57 -> 41:52] Speaker 1: And I felt like I got a little resentment towards God 'cause I was like, God, you know, and I know that I'm better than him at basketball, but he has what I want. Especially during the draft, like, shout out to my rock, shout out to William. But I remember like we had some teams calling second round, to like, yeah, this team trying to get you, this team trying to get you. And every single time it fell through. And I'm seeing these dudes that got picked and I was like, bro, I was just in a workout with him and I was killing him. I was like, he made me look better. So it's definitely, definitely hard. Like, I remember I was crying after I went undrafted and like, she had to calm me down and we had to take a second. And I was like, bro, I still signed a contract. I'm still going to play in the NBA. I'm not even supposed to be here. God just placed this in my lap. But nah, it's definitely a struggle. Like, it's always like, why me?

[41:52 -> 41:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[41:53 -> 41:57] Speaker 1: Like, how come I don't have what they have? So that's the hardest part for me.

[41:57 -> 42:24] Speaker 2: I've had to ask myself in those moments, 'cause I've been in the why me point, like, God, what do you need me to learn from this situation? Like, I've had to change. And it is so hard to do that in the moment 'cause you already like down. You're like, I'm already going through this. Like, God, what do I need to learn through this situation? And Lord, don't let this situation go to waste so I can then help somebody else who's likely to be going through the same thing. 'Cause I know you don't waste anything that happens in life. So tough. Easier said than done. It's so tough. Yeah.

[42:24 -> 42:35] Speaker 1: I think it's the same thing for me is struggling and staying faithful because I'm the type of person, like, I come from, before I was with Christ, just like, I'm gonna make something happen.

[42:35 -> 42:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[42:36 -> 43:07] Speaker 1: 'Cause I'm a hustler at heart. Like, I get it from my parents. Like, my parents ain't been saved their whole life. I'm gonna just keep it at that. Um, so they raised me with the mindset of, bro, go out there and get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, they didn't give me anything growing up. By the time I hit the age of like 13, 14, it's like, nah, you're gonna work for this, whatever it is. Um, so I, I feel like I— and it's helped me 100% because I use that mindset in a positive way. But also it's like, when I don't see God moving, it's hard to just sit on my hands and be like, all right, God, I'm gonna just wait on you.

[43:07 -> 43:08] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[43:08 -> 43:16] Speaker 1: Like, it's tough. It's like, hold on now, we, we need an extra couple thousand dollars, bro. I'm about, I'm about to go get it. When the whole time God got the ram in the bush.

[43:16 -> 43:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[43:16 -> 43:17] Speaker 1: He might come through in the 4th quarter.

[43:17 -> 43:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[43:18 -> 44:31] Speaker 1: Like, and it's happened every single time where it's like, whether not even just money, but I use that for an example 'cause it's more relatable. But I've seen that where it's like, we trying to do such and such a prime example with, uh, The show we just threw, we were supposed to get— we had a McDonald's sponsor. They pulled out. All love to them. It wasn't nothing personal, but they had other business stuff that they had to do. So they had to pull out. Had a big sponsor with them. They pulled out their sponsor. And then the Boys and Girls Club agreed to sponsor us. But it just kept, like, they kept sending the request back. Then we send it back. They send the request back. Change this. Then we send it back. Up until literally the day of the concert, I get a call from one of the people from the Boys and Girls Club. And they like— I'm thinking they calling like, hey, the money's here. They hit me, literally. Now mind you, we gotta buy PS5s, we gotta make sure all this stuff, the merch and everything is taken care of. A 2-day event, mind you. All this stuff outta pocket. Me and my household. And again, shout out to IJ and Malia 'cause they helped out a ton with what we did, uh, as well. But all that stuff was outta pocket. I say that to say this. We sitting back and then literally I get a call the day of the concert and I'm just like, bro, we ain't got the money. Like it's over with. I know they not finna call and say we got it. God is so funny. He allowed us to do all this stuff out of pocket just to show us, I'm doing this.

[44:31 -> 44:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[44:32 -> 44:46] Speaker 1: Just for me to get a call like 6 hours before the show of, hey, we couldn't get it to you today, but we got you in 2 weeks. I said, yo. And then they thought I was gonna be mad. Whole time I'm cheesing on the phone. I can't show them that.

[44:46 -> 44:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, right.

[44:46 -> 45:15] Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, I didn't think we was getting this, period. Like, so You know, again, just going back to, even if it's in the 4th quarter, like he's gonna come through. Like our wedding, bro, I'm gonna be honest with you. When I proposed to my wife, I didn't do it irresponsibly. I had a plan. I did have a plan, but I didn't know weddings was this expensive. And we had, if y'all go look back at my Instagram and see what our wedding looked like and even our honeymoon, ah, it was, it cost a ticket for sure.

[45:15 -> 45:15] Speaker 2: For sure.

[45:15 -> 45:41] Speaker 1: So I remember thinking in that moment after, proposing, soon as we came off the high of, oh my gosh, we getting married, I immediately went into, ooh, I'm about to have to get a job. Like, literally. 'Cause it was like, yo, yeah, music is paying good, but what I'm not gonna do is go broke for this wedding and for the honeymoon and then, 'cause we still gotta live a life after, you know, the marriage. So I instantly went to, all right, bet, working out, like literally on Indeed, gang.

[45:41 -> 45:41] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[45:41 -> 45:46] Speaker 1: Like, now mind you, in my city I'm known. So it's like, That wasn't gonna go good.

[45:46 -> 45:46] Speaker 2: 100%.

[45:46 -> 46:08] Speaker 1: But I remember sitting there and I called my mom and I'm like, yo, I think I'm about to just like, I'm about to just lower my pride and get a job. I'm thinking I'm doing a godly thing, lowering my pride and X, Y, and Z. Man, my mom was dead serious. It was like, are you stupid? And I'm like, what you mean? She like, don't you understand that God gifted you with this girl? He's gonna make sure that everything is taken care of.

[46:08 -> 46:09] Speaker 2: That's good.

[46:09 -> 46:15] Speaker 1: And literally right after that, is when I started getting booked. I'm talking about left and— matter of fact, that was when you called.

[46:15 -> 46:15] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[46:15 -> 46:18] Speaker 1: Like, literally booked me a year in advance.

[46:18 -> 46:18] Speaker 2: Bro.

[46:18 -> 46:52] Speaker 1: That has never— at that point, it had never happened before. You called me. People started booking me so much a year out to where I didn't touch none of that money. All my show money went straight to the wedding and X, Y, and Z, to the point where we had the best wedding we could have, the best honeymoon we could have, and had Again, so much leftover to where everything worked itself out. So again, I say all that to say this. I have lived it. Like, bro, if you really lean on God, you don't have— God didn't ask you to be the provider. He just asked you to give him a yes.

[46:52 -> 46:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[46:53 -> 47:02] Speaker 1: And let him do the rest of the work. That's it. If he gives you the vision, he's going to have the provision. He's gonna bring that 100%. I am walking in that right now.

[47:03 -> 47:06] Speaker 2: I'm sneaking this question in. I know I ain't got y'all for too much longer. Go ahead.

[47:06 -> 47:06] Speaker 1: Go ahead.

[47:07 -> 47:13] Speaker 2: What is the difference between using your platform to talk about Jesus and actually using your platform to represent Jesus?

[47:13 -> 47:55] Speaker 1: So, man, this is cool because we were just talking about it. Somebody literally came up to him and they're talking about me and they're like, you're talking about the Jesus dude? Like the dude, everything he wears say Jesus. So like I said, I'm not the biggest talker. And I mean, you can, like a lot of people throughout the league, you know, they'll have a good game or whatever and they'll say all glory to God and stuff like that. But I think I approach it, like I said with Klose earlier, to really take it deeper. 'Cause I told him yesterday, like when people see me, I don't want them to see Isaac. I don't want them to see IJ. I want them to see Christ.

[47:55 -> 47:55] Speaker 2: Mm.

[47:55 -> 48:31] Speaker 1: Like it's Christ, not me. And so I take that very seriously. Like my whole closet is straight just Christian merch. I mean, I seen it, he's seen it. I give him some stuff. I don't know, it became who I am. And like I said, I don't want a reflection of IJ. I want everybody to see Christ. And that just, I'm gonna tell my side too, but that was one of the major things that really made me lock in with him because He didn't— he don't have to do that. Yeah, like, he don't have to go out of his way to support Christian brands. Like, yeah, people don't, bro. People in our space don't do it.

[48:31 -> 48:32] Speaker 2: I'm aware.

[48:32 -> 49:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, bro, like, you are literally in our space and won't support us. Like, it's overly crazy. Um, but no, I witnessed— and like, like I said, like, the first day I met him, he literally bring down a— well, not the first day I met him, but the first day I was at his crib, he literally brought down a box like this big. Like, hey gang, I got too many clothes. Like, go ahead. And it was literally just Nothing but like you said, like stuff with Jesus, stuff with scriptures and X, Y, and Z. And I will, I've never told him this, so this is the first time you're hearing this and I hate having to give him props, but I will say, I will say.

[49:01 -> 49:01] Speaker 2: Shh.

[49:01 -> 49:25] Speaker 1: He even convicted me and didn't even know he even convicted me because as a Christian artist, like I stopped really, I ain't gonna lie, the older I got, like I stopped caring about fashion for real. And I just pop out black tee, jewelry on, like call it a day. But he made me really realize like, even when I'm off stage, I can still be representing Christ.

[49:25 -> 49:25] Speaker 2: Come on.

[49:25 -> 50:03] Speaker 1: So like, so to where now, like, I'm wearing my merch a lot more, and that's why I made the logo to where you, you can't— the whole Demon Killer thing, that could be a question. Yeah, like, what does that mean? That could be worldly, whatever. Obviously we know what it is. But Disciple Kingdom Gospel, like, I got a shirt that says, uh, in Detroit as in as it is in heaven, that I plan on making for all the major cities. So y'all have one too in Cleveland, in there, you know what I'm saying? So I remember we was out one day and I got a couple compliments on that, like everywhere we went, to the restaurant, X, Y, and Z. And it was dope. Like, okay, they don't know who I am as a rapper, but just that small encounter was like, that's fire.

[50:03 -> 50:03] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:03 -> 50:22] Speaker 1: So it made me realize like, nah, bro, like I need to even do a better job at— yeah, I'm on stage representing Christ. Yes, I'm on my platform representing Christ, but I can be doing it even more. Like, how could that hurt? And then also too, just supporting Christian brands. Like, we need the support. And there are some— he even opened my eyes to this— there are some fire Christian brands.

[50:22 -> 50:23] Speaker 2: There's a lot.

[50:23 -> 50:26] Speaker 1: I haven't seen a lot 'cause I didn't do a deep dive.

[50:26 -> 50:26] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:26 -> 50:51] Speaker 1: But there is a lot of Christian brands out there that's overly fire, that look better and better quality than some of the, you know, mainstream stuff that we wear today. Um, but I'll keep my answer short for, for what I'm doing. I think for me it goes back to people see me with my job is different. Um, people see— every time people see me on Instagram, it's associated with being a Christian rapper.

[50:51 -> 50:52] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[50:52 -> 51:13] Speaker 1: So of course I'm representing Christ and I'm talking about Christ, but I think the difference is again when you meet me in person. So that's why I love doing shows, but that's why I like— if you know, even last night, bro, I was exhausted. Yeah, I could have easily just hid in the Like, I don't even, most people when they get off stage, they go to the green room, get theyself ready and then come back. Like, I be scared I'm gonna miss somebody.

[51:13 -> 51:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[51:13 -> 51:14] Speaker 1: And I don't want the—

[51:14 -> 51:15] Speaker 2: That's real.

[51:15 -> 51:40] Speaker 1: I don't want people having the thing of like, oh, he Hollywood. Like, I got a song called I Hate Kai. I haven't put it out yet. I can't wait. And it literally talks about how a fan one time thought that I was trying to be Hollywood. beat Hollywood by leaving. Whole time I just had to catch a flight the next day very, very early. But that hurt me 'cause it was like, yo, that's not even my character.

[51:40 -> 51:41] Speaker 2: Right.

[51:41 -> 51:57] Speaker 1: So I try to make sure that I sign every autograph, I take every picture, I listen to every testimony, like, just to show that love of Christ. 'Cause I feel like that's what Jesus would've did. I feel like when he preached that Sermon on the Mount, he didn't run to a green room after that.

[51:57 -> 51:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[51:58 -> 52:19] Speaker 1: He stayed and sat with the people. He ate with the people. Like, he didn't act like he was above them. I'm not above you because I'm on a stage. I'm right where you are. I just got blessed with the opportunity to spread this gospel in a unique way. Yeah, but I'm exactly where you are. Yes, I want to hear your testimony, even if it takes 15 minutes of my time and I got a whole line of people. Yeah, like, cool, move out the way. Let me take a couple pictures and come back.

[52:20 -> 52:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[52:21 -> 52:30] Speaker 1: Because I want people to leave with knowing like, oh, he not just up here to collect a check. Like, he actually genuinely cares about these so-called fans. I call them family and supporters.

[52:30 -> 52:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[52:31 -> 52:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that's the difference. When people meet me in person, you could feel a way about me online. People do it all the time. And then when they meet me in person, it's like, oh, he really— he about this for real.

[52:42 -> 52:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[52:42 -> 52:49] Speaker 1: That's my— that's the biggest compliment I can get is, wow, you're a lot different than what I thought you would be. Like, for sure, for sure.

[52:50 -> 53:08] Speaker 2: I appreciate y'all being on here for real. This was, this was great, like getting to know you. Let me know those, those Christian brands. I got you. You know, I like to shop. So this is a Let 'Em Know segment. This is the final segment of the podcast. This is where you can share anything you like with the audience. So Isaac, Kai, please let 'em know.

[53:08 -> 53:22] Speaker 1: Go ahead, RJ. No, you go first, bro. Say less. Listen, man, I say it all the time. If y'all tired of me saying it, I don't care because I'm gonna to say this to the day that I pass away, bro. I said it last night. Um, you are never too far away from Christ.

[53:22 -> 53:23] Speaker 2: Never.

[53:23 -> 54:30] Speaker 1: Ever. Like, that's my saying. I need to put that on a shirt, like, and actually get it tattooed, because that's a slogan that I live by, bro. Like, that's the— I feel like that's one of the biggest misconceptions. I feel like that's how the enemy tricks us, is with condemnation, not conviction. It's a difference. It's conviction and condemnation are 2 different things. I feel like a lot of times when people sin The enemy comes in and makes them feel like they're too far away from God, um, to come back. And I feel like also when we go to church, sometimes we look at the pastor again because he's on this stage, and it makes us feel like we're so far away that why should we even try to get there when that's not even the case? No matter what you did today, no matter what you did yesterday, no matter what you are gonna do today or tomorrow, if you woke up with air in your lungs, that's just a sign that God is still giving you another opportunity at this thing to get this right. And even if you keep messing up, don't look at Christ— a lot of— this is the last thing I'll say. Christ, a lot of times we look at our Heavenly Father and put him in the same box as our earthly father. And that could be very damaging because some of our earthly fathers have been deadbeats. Yeah.

[54:30 -> 54:30] Speaker 2: Some of our—

[54:30 -> 54:46] Speaker 1: some people don't know their earthly fathers. And sometimes, like, I got a great father at home. Thanks be to God. My dad is a great dad, my best friend. But I fell into, 'cause my dad is very much like, yeah, you scored 30 points today. Why didn't you score 35?

[54:46 -> 54:46] Speaker 2: Right.

[54:46 -> 54:51] Speaker 1: Like, for real. Like, even with my music, it's like, yeah, you charted top 5, but we going for number 1.

[54:51 -> 54:52] Speaker 2: What are you doing?

[54:52 -> 55:14] Speaker 1: So I feel like a lot of times I've put that same thing on God. Like, oh, God ain't gonna love me if I didn't succeed in this or X, Y, and Z. Bro, heavenly Father, natural father, 2 different things. The love of God is indescribable. Undescribable. He loves you. He ain't gonna turn his back on you. He won't leave nor forsake you. And you are not too far from him ever.

[55:14 -> 55:15] Speaker 2: Amen.

[55:15 -> 55:23] Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'll say God's not done. You're in this fire because this is a season of change for you.

[55:23 -> 55:23] Speaker 2: Yep.

[55:23 -> 55:30] Speaker 1: And you're not the only one going through it. So I think community's really important. Like I had no idea that we could be going through the same thing.

[55:30 -> 55:31] Speaker 2: Yep.

[55:31 -> 55:41] Speaker 1: But yeah, I always say God's not done. And, uh, I think the word of the year for me and my friends is dependency and just giving it to God, leaving it with him. Yeah, full trust in him.

[55:41 -> 56:07] Speaker 2: Appreciate y'all. That's how we let them know. You already know I'm about to pray us out. Father, I just want to thank you right now for bringing us here, Lord. I thank you in advance. This episode is going to reach the people that you wanted to reach, Father. But for that person who's listening right now who wants to know more of that Jesus that we've been talking about, Lord, I pray that they are even Repenting now. They're turning away from their ways now. They are surrendering to you now. They're asking forgiveness now, Lord, and giving their hearts to you, Father.

[56:07 -> 56:09] Speaker 1: Yes.

[56:09 -> 57:09] Speaker 2: To be truly free, to be truly fulfilled, to have an eternity in heaven with you, Lord. So I pray right now for that person who has just turned away from their ways and given their hearts to you in full, just surrender, Father. So I thank you in advance, Lord, that you've used us to reach who you need to reach. I pray your traveling mercies over us as we get ready to depart, Lord. And I pray you continue to give us the grace to just surrender and submit ourselves to you, the grace to just say yes to you, the grace to be obedient to the things you've called us to do, the things that are easy and even the things that are difficult, Father. But I pray that you just continue to use us as, as husbands to honor our wives, Father. I pray you continue to use us to just be light and salt of the earth. And I just thank you in advance for everything you're doing in us and through us. I thank you. We're more than conquerors. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. That he who is in us is greater than he who is in the world. And Lord, I thank you that you've overcome the world, Lord. And I thank you that you didn't waste any part of our testimonies. We're going to use these to be light and salt to someone else, to be an encouragement to someone else. We just thank you for all these things now in Jesus' name.

[57:10 -> 57:11] Speaker 1: Amen. Amen.

[57:11 -> 57:38] Speaker 2: If you've been enjoying our content, please like, follow, share, and subscribe to the Rooted in Christ podcast. We are on all major podcast platforms. Listen, November 7th is going down the one way at the House of Blues in Cleveland. We have KB coming, we have Brenno, we have Portia Love, Detroit's own Portia Love. Let me go ahead and make sure I put that inside. Yeah, Mike Teezy is gonna be there. My man Renzo is helping me co-host the show. Taylor Wells is gonna be there. You never know who might pop out of the Beyond the Wall show.

[57:38 -> 57:39] Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?

[57:40 -> 57:43] Speaker 2: Hey, you just never know who you might just happen to see.

[57:43 -> 57:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. In Cleveland. Yeah.

[57:45 -> 57:46] Speaker 2: At Beyond the Walls.

[57:46 -> 57:47] Speaker 1: For sure.

[57:47 -> 57:53] Speaker 2: So I don't care if you graduating, getting married, or getting buried, please cancel your plans. Don't meet me there, beat me there.