I Can't Made God Into My Own Image - Constance Hastings on the Rooted in Christ Podcast Ep. 213

[2 Speakers Detected] [Total Utterances: 74]

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[0:00 -> 0:45] Speaker 1: One of the chapters in the book is, the trouble with Jesus is he refuses to be the divine fixer. And the, you know, the way you say, you know, I told God how things should be. We do that all the time. And even in prayers of great need, we still think we know best. And, you know, God, this is the problem, and this is what you need to do. Rather than— And this is the hardest prayer to pray honestly. Thy will be done. That doesn't mean that we can't bring our problems to God, we can't lay them at Jesus' feet, but we have to be able to pray that. Yes, yes, this is where I am, this is where I'm sitting, you know, help me through this in your will.

[0:45 -> 1:01] Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Rooted in Christ podcast. It is Monday, it is 3 PM, and we have Constance Hastings on the show with us. Sister, how are you doing?

[1:01 -> 1:04] Speaker 1: I'm blessed today. Thank you for having me.

[1:04 -> 1:22] Speaker 2: Thank you for, for being on. And I gotta give PodMatch a shout out for once again bringing me another, um, great guest. So, you know, I— that, that platform has saved me so much time as far as like trying to find the right fit for our audience. So thank you again for being on here today.

[1:22 -> 1:27] Speaker 1: You're welcome. I believe it's a divine appointment and PodMatch was in the middle.

[1:27 -> 1:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, I, 'cause I stumbled across it by, by total accident. I was in another, um, podcast group on, on Facebook and someone said, you know, they, the name, they were just randomly started talking about PodMatch. I looked it up, I'm like, this is an incredible resource. I'm just gonna join it. And yeah, it's been fruitful ever since.

[1:44 -> 1:46] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah.

[1:46 -> 2:11] Speaker 2: I, I wanna talk to you because you have a, a testimony that I think my, would be, be a blessing to my audience. 'Cause I don't think it's something that people talk about enough. I don't think when people have questions or questions about their faith, I don't I don't think we sometimes talk about these things enough, but I specifically want to talk to you about a phrase. So when you say, or you hear the phrase, the trouble with Jesus, what exactly is that trouble?

[2:11 -> 2:51] Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, yes. Um, a lot of people have sort of given that a good look, but, um, it came about, uh, not because I have any problems with God. I sometimes say I have no more problems with God than most other people do, but be what it is. Yet, it was about now 12 years ago that I was working in one church, and a church down the street, many people in there, you know, we knew back and forth. The women of that church asked me to do a Saturday morning retreat.

[2:51 -> 2:52] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[2:52 -> 3:25] Speaker 1: And, you know, that's a normal kind of thing. They gave me several months to think about it, which I appreciated. And I began to explore different ways that I could speak to them. Now, you need to understand that I knew these women. They were smart. They were professional. They were leaders. And I wanted to bring them something with impact. But even though there are 66 books in the Bible, I could not come up with a message. And I'm starting to get really frustrated. And one day I just looked up and I went, the trouble is with Jesus.

[3:28 -> 3:28] Speaker 2: Oh.

[3:28 -> 4:02] Speaker 1: And I sat down and started getting these ideas and pages started forming around it. And I did the study with them. It went over very well. Believe me, God showed up. And then I went back to my home church and I did it there as well. And again, it was well received. And that's when I knew I had the beginnings of a book. So, The Trouble with Jesus began, you know, pretty innocuous right there in the church kind of thing. But God spoke to me through that. And that's how it developed.

[4:02 -> 4:12] Speaker 2: So, I'm gonna go ahead. What did that end up— what did that end up leading to after that situation? Like, after you wrote this, what did that turn into?

[4:12 -> 4:29] Speaker 1: It turned into a book that is edgy. Now, I say edgy, but not profane. But the reason I call it edgy is because it's developed with this voice. And this voice is the voice of a doubter or a skeptic.

[4:29 -> 4:29] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[4:29 -> 6:15] Speaker 1: And this doubter is sarcastic and angry, questioning, challenging, you know, ready to walk out the door kind of voice that interrupts the story of Jesus and the narration of that. Now, when I talk about the trouble with Jesus, there are things like one of the chapters is, The trouble with Jesus is he chose losers. And, you know, if you think about someone who wants to start a movement, you don't start with people who can't help you, who have no influence, who have no money to bring to it. And, you know, that's not the way it's done, but that's how Jesus did it. The trouble with Jesus is he valued women. And this was in a context of a century when women were basically either wives, prostitutes, or slaves. And for the most part, there wasn't too much difference between the 3. So, in developing this, I looked at those places where today our context, our social mores, our culture would say, hey, this isn't going to work. But that's what Jesus used and developed. And now here we are more than 2,000 years later, and he's still speaking in those same places and brings that same kind of trouble in our world, which he experienced, and at the same time causing trouble as well, all of which for him converged to the ultimate trouble of being crucified. But even in death, he was able to overcome that trouble in his resurrection and give us a promise of abundant new living and eternal life today.

[6:15 -> 7:01] Speaker 2: I mean, he, he uses the, the least of us, but he, he could use anything. And it's why I try to remind people, like, it is a blessing and an honor to serve in God's house, and it's a blessing and honor to be used by God. You know, just because you might not be the worship leader or the one on stage preaching, number one, you don't know the price that somebody's paying to be, to be in those situations. And we never wanna be envious of someone else's calling. But God also called the, the accountant. He called the, the, the fireman. He, he called the, the people who, who are working in the fast food restaurant. He called— if you're serving him, it's a blessing to serve him and just serve him where you are, the best of your ability, keeping him first. I mean, it's—

[7:01 -> 7:02] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[7:02 -> 7:11] Speaker 2: So with that being said, in, in the context of this book, then what is the source of that voice's like doubt and skepticism?

[7:12 -> 7:14] Speaker 1: Oh, the source is, I guess, my life.

[7:14 -> 7:15] Speaker 2: Sure.

[7:15 -> 10:00] Speaker 1: I was not raised in a Christian home. My parents, you know, were not religious. It wasn't part of our home life. However, it was during the time when schools were being desegregated that I started school. And so, as I say, for all the wrong reasons, my parents sent me to a small independent not very expensive Christian school down the street, feeling that I would be separated from that and being saved. But God was there. And the teachers there, they loved me despite the fact that I was so different from the other students in my classes. You know, their parents were pastors and missionaries and very much embedded in the church. And my father ran a bar. Didn't make a difference to them. They accepted me. They drew me in. I excelled in Bible study. And, you know, they taught me well. And so, it was at a very young age, one night, it was actually on a Good Friday, I felt so responsible for Jesus having to die for my sins. And on my knees, I just prayed. And Said to him, Jesus, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and asked for his forgiveness. And I experienced what was literally a physical reaction to it, as if this great burden had dropped away. Years later, I read Paul Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. And when Pilgrim stands at the cross and repents, his burden also falls away. And that's when I knew that's where my salvation began. And, you know, I just praise God for that. That kind of kept me there. But again, as to that voice, so I lived in a home that wasn't Christian. And I— it wasn't, you know, a terrible conflict. I was loved and well cared for in that way. However, there was this tension between what I was learning at school and what I saw going on at my home. And I heard those voices and I saw those things happening. And then, of course, going to college and eventually teaching. And I was, I was in the public schools and a community college for 25 years. And again, hearing some of those voices and where they were. God eventually called me into going back to school and having an 18-year faith-based mental health practice.

[10:00 -> 10:00] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[10:00 -> 10:36] Speaker 1: And especially in those places where people were in such pain is where I heard those voices. Not to mention in our culture today, social media, keeping your ear to the ground, it's all around us. So, I wanted to gather into this voice, as you will, what these thoughts were and how people had this pushback against Jesus And who he was. And that is what comes out. It's not constant. But when it does come up, it's very interruptive throughout the book as it tells Jesus' story.

[10:36 -> 11:18] Speaker 2: I think I've heard you say that Jesus' voice is disruptive. And honestly, I'm grateful for the disruptions he's brought to my life. And just, like, stopped me from doing some of the things that I thought I wanted. You know, like, how many times have we prayed something and said, God, I want this, give me this, bless me with this, and God says no? And you see 3 months, 6 months, a year later, and you're like, oh my goodness, thank goodness this did not come through. God, thank goodness that you are Alpha and Omega and you are all-knowing. You just disrupted the plan I had for my life that I thought was better than me, as if you are not all-knowing.

[11:18 -> 11:19] Speaker 1: Absolutely.

[11:19 -> 11:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[11:20 -> 12:10] Speaker 1: And you know, Eric, one of the chapters in the book is, the trouble with Jesus is he refuses to be the divine fixer. And the, you know, the way you say, you know, I, I told God how things should be— we do that all the time. And even in prayers of great need, we still think we know best. And, you know, God, this is the problem and this is what you need to do, rather than— And this is the hardest prayer to pray honestly. Thy will be done. That doesn't mean that we can't bring our problems to God. We can't lay them at Jesus' feet. But we have to be able to pray that. Yes, this is where I am. This is where I'm sitting. You know, help me through this in your will. And it's, it's pretty significant.

[12:10 -> 12:11] Speaker 2: Excuse me.

[12:11 -> 12:38] Speaker 1: It's pretty significant if you, if you can actually come to that place. And so, you know, as you mentioned, a lot of times we think we should— we know how our life should go. My intention was to teach for many years, to get a nice pension, to retire with my husband, travel, simple hobbies, be with family. Oh my goodness, I'm not getting to do a whole lot of that. Well, my husband's with me, but—

[12:38 -> 12:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[12:39 -> 12:49] Speaker 1: But, you know, it turned out so different. And we have been places and met people that we never would have without that intervention, that disruption of God.

[12:49 -> 13:00] Speaker 2: So I've also, you know, I've seen you say, like, to know love, you must know its lover. So what does that mean in real life?

[13:00 -> 13:46] Speaker 1: In real life, it means you have to understand who it is that you, you think you can love. And you have to have a real sense Of who that person is, and likewise, who your God is. We can't make God into our own image. We can't make an idol of God that we want God to be. But many people do, unfortunately. And so, you've got to come to that place where you know who it is in whom you want to be relationship, and to feel and experience the love of God, You've got to know God in Jesus Christ, and certainly by the power of the Holy Spirit.

[13:46 -> 14:01] Speaker 2: So if someone had, let's just say, in their faith, they have one foot in the door, one foot out, they're ready to walk away, they're ready to throw in the towel. Like, what would you say to that person? What would you tell them before they're like, I'm giving up on Jesus?

[14:01 -> 14:26] Speaker 1: That Jesus and the grace that he brings will never give up on you. Yeah, I have been in places like— last month, I was at a book festival, and somebody went by, and I could tell, you know, their wheels were turning in their head. And I said, oh, let's talk. And he spoke to me, and he said right out, he says, I'm an atheist.

[14:26 -> 14:27] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[14:27 -> 15:18] Speaker 1: He said, but there was a time in my life when I went on what we would say it would be like a spiritual journey. You know, to see what I could find. And, you know, he was one that delved into comparative religions. And, you know, he went to certain places where they had, you know, sort of retreats. Some of it sounded a little cultish. But he said one time and one time only, he was in a place And he experienced this light that came before him. And he said, I never was able to find out what that was. And I said to him, let's think about this. That light was seeking you.

[15:18 -> 15:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:20 -> 16:42] Speaker 1: And that light came to find you. And that's what Jesus does. Jesus came to us. God incarnate comes to us even when we're not even looking for him or looking for him in the right way, in the right places. And I said, what you saw there and what you experienced very well could have been the peace of Christ. And he had this look on his face like he'd never considered that. It had never— you know, he never thought that God was looking for him in that place. And then he turned and he walked away. I watched him walk away, just as Jesus watched the rich young ruler walk away after he'd said, sell all you have and give to the poor. You know, but that grace also followed him, and I followed him as long as I could see him with my prayers. And that's That's what Jesus brings. So you may have people in your life and people that you love dearly who seemingly are trying to walk away from God and Jesus Christ and, and the faith that we know in that way. And yet God doesn't leave them.

[16:42 -> 16:43] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[16:43 -> 16:57] Speaker 1: So I have that, that confidence that God will continue to follow him and any others as long as we have soul. God will speak and call and ask that we come into him.

[16:57 -> 17:17] Speaker 2: So in this, because I know that you said that you, like, you were doing counseling at one point as well, and to whatever degree you can answer this question, so what are some of the struggles that you've seen through counseling that Christians, like, they struggle with overall?

[17:17 -> 18:21] Speaker 1: Um, and not only within the church but outside the church in the culture, uh, people ask the question, why, God? You know, why is there suffering? Why is there pain? Why do bad things happen to good people? Sorts of things. Why, in, you know, looking at our nation, why are we in such conflict over this? Kinds of things. Where is there unity? Why do we see such oppression, even just downright evil in the world? Where are you, God? And why aren't you doing anything about it? I won't say those are not valid questions. We all have those times in our lives, you know, where people sit there. One time, I was counseling a girl who was 12 years old. And she was— had been abused for about 5 years by her older brother before she was taken out of the home and put into foster care.

[18:22 -> 18:22] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[18:22 -> 21:14] Speaker 1: And that was, that was necessary given her home life and what she was experiencing. And as we talked, I said to her, where, where were you with God in this? Did you ever pray to God? And she said, I always believed in God. But she said, I just believed he was there for the other children. Which absolutely broke my heart that she felt so separated from God. And that's where I think much of this comes from, this feeling of separation, because we look to God to, you know, solve everything, to be that divine fixer. And it's a hard place in which to sit. And there's this tension between faith and doubt. And I want to encourage your listeners, do not feel that doubt is wrong, that you don't have faith if you do doubt, because it's in those places of doubt that we best can grow and come to— even a stronger faith and a more mature spirit in Jesus Christ. As someone described it to me, as if, you know, say like a bodybuilder. You know, a bodybuilder to become better and stronger has to stretch those muscles, has to challenge those muscles. And it's only then that in times of recovery do we understand the strength that we have achieved. And it's the same way with our faith. Like, our faith is like a muscle that must be stretched, that must come to those places of doubt. So, that's why I say doubt is not the opposite of faith, but rather fear is the opposite of faith. Because in fear, that's when people might walk away. But doubt is a place in which to enter and to sit And, you know, bring those challenges before God and wait for what God will bring. So, as you mentioned, you know, if things turned out the way we wanted, you know, the better thing may not have been possible. But even if the answers don't come in this life, we will experience them. You know, as Paul says, right now we see through that glass darkly. We can't see the whole story. And yet to know that somehow our lives are a participation in God's story and what God will ultimately bring.

[21:14 -> 21:22] Speaker 2: In your opinion, how would you say, like, churches can become a safer place for just raw, honest questions about Jesus?

[21:22 -> 22:00] Speaker 1: Churches have to preach it. I mean, you know, churches have to preach to those doubts. And again, it might not be always having all the answers. but at least speak to them. Because, and again, that's part of the reason why I have this voice in this book, that doubt needs voice. It needs to know that it's listened to, that it's heard, that the challenges that they face are not something that are to be swept under the rug, so to speak, but have to be real. And churches need to do it from the pulpit. They need to do it in their small groups.

[22:00 -> 22:00] Speaker 2: That's good.

[22:00 -> 22:16] Speaker 1: They need to You know, have, if necessary, counselors on staff, or maybe at least a place of referral for people to bring these and not to be sent away just because they have these doubts and they have these struggles.

[22:16 -> 22:36] Speaker 2: Man, that's— no, that's so solid. I think that I've talked about this podcast a lot. Biblical illiteracy is a real problem, and not teaching the truth of the gospel is also a real problem. And, you know, one thing I love about my church is I've noticed that whatever it is preached in the pulpit, that is the direction our church goes in.

[22:36 -> 22:37] Speaker 1: Good.

[22:37 -> 22:45] Speaker 2: You know, and I, I appreciate being in a Bible-believing, word-based church because, you know, uh, our pastor will give it to you straight.

[22:45 -> 23:13] Speaker 1: That's wonderful. And that's not to deny— and unfortunately, you know, people talk about, um, church hurt and those kinds of things. Uh, you know, some churches are toxic. And, you know, if, if that's what you determine there and that they want to keep you in the pews and quiet, maybe it's time to, you know, to move on and to ask God to lead you to the place where indeed you can, you can truly grow.

[23:13 -> 23:20] Speaker 2: What chapter in this book would you say is going to be the most challenging for Christians?

[23:20 -> 23:33] Speaker 1: When I wrote it or was writing it, I thought the chapter The Trouble with Jesus Is he talked a lot about money.

[23:33 -> 23:34] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[23:34 -> 24:11] Speaker 1: People don't like to be told what to do with their money. Okay. And it really is hard to understand that in God's economy, money is not given to us just to make our lives easier. But within God's plan, those who are blessed are blessed more importantly, to be a blessing and to use our resources to help others. Now, you know, I'm not in favor of, you know, just going and handing out, you know, your paycheck to somebody or something like that.

[24:11 -> 24:11] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[24:11 -> 25:26] Speaker 1: We've gotta be responsible stewards of the money that we have. But, you know, to know that it's not totally your own. And sometimes, you know, it may be just stepping up to a tithe, At other times, it may be like the women that anointed Jesus' feet and, you know, an extravagant sacrifice of expensive perfume that was poured over him. You know, but however it is, know that God will ask that of you and be willing to bring that to him. So, as I said, I thought that would be the hardest chapter. But when I got to the chapter about the trouble with Jesus is he refused to be divine fixer, that honestly, That's where we all sit. And I think this is a reflection, again, of our greater culture, that so many people think that's what God is for. That, you know, God is this Santa Claus who's supposed to give us gifts, and that God is the one who's supposed to save us, not from ourselves, but from all that is around us. Just leave us alone. And yet, you know, that's, that's where Jesus stepped into. And that is a big trouble with Jesus.

[25:26 -> 25:33] Speaker 2: So, for anyone who wants to read your book, where can they find it? And do you have another book in you?

[25:33 -> 26:43] Speaker 1: Okay. Second question first. No, I don't have another book. But I do have a blog that is a companion to the book, also titled The Trouble with Jesus. Now, that edgy, skeptical voice is in the blog. But of course, it's shorter. It's about a 10-minute read, and it deals with a more focused passage rather than the book, of course, which has larger themes. So if you go on my website, you can find it there, constancehastings.com, and there'll be a pop-up which will ask you if you would like to subscribe. It's weekly. It's free if you want it to be. And, you know, again, only about 10 minutes. But anybody who subscribes to the blog through that website link will also receive a link with a promo code, and you can get the book for 20% off. So, you know, you can reach me best through the blog, ask me questions, respond to the blog, to the book, and I'd love to hear from you. And if I may, let me see if I can get this so people can see it.

[26:43 -> 26:46] Speaker 2: Almost.

[26:46 -> 26:57] Speaker 1: Almost. It's coming. Okay, well, at any rate, it's, it's, it's on the blog. There it is, a little bit. Okay, so there you go.

[26:57 -> 26:58] Speaker 2: There you go.

[26:58 -> 27:00] Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay.

[27:00 -> 27:22] Speaker 2: Sister, thank you so much for being on here today. This is the Let Them Know segment. So for this, it's the last segment of the show. I just want you to, to answer this question before I have you pray us out. What would you say to somebody who is really wondering, can they serve Jesus, but they're still wrestling with some questions?

[27:22 -> 29:00] Speaker 1: God has that plan for you. And do not deny your questions. Speak them to God, speak them to others, go deep into the Word. And this is my suggestion, especially when reading Scripture. Is— and this is not a process that I came up with on my own. This has been around for centuries. But, you know, when you first read a passage, read it for what it says. Yeah, what's it saying here? Secondly, read it for what it means and ask God to reveal that to you, whether it be on something that is personal to you or even greater, maybe a word to speak to someone else. And then next, ask, how does it apply? And if you spend your day looking and seeking for those opportunities to apply that scripture, it will become rooted in you, rooted in Christ. And you will be able then to enter into this place of conversation with God and to be in— a holy— actually, a holy conversation with God to understand what his will and way may be. You know, in my own life, as I, you know, I sometimes say to people, I shouldn't be here today. You know, I never intended to write this book and all that kind of thing. And yet that was, that was a plan by which— not that my life is easy, but in knowing that I have stepped into it, I am blessed.

[29:00 -> 29:07] Speaker 2: Sister, thank you again for being on here today. Would you mind praying us out before we get out of here?

[29:07 -> 31:02] Speaker 1: Oh, I'd love to. Oh, gracious, gracious God, I thank you, Lord, for, um, this podcast and Eric, Rooted in Christ. I mean, what more can you say about that and what we know of your desire for us? And I thank you for his willingness to be your your instrument of bringing the word to others, that word of encouragement, that word of enlightenment, and indeed to just help us rejoice together in who Jesus Christ is. Lord, for this miracle of podcasting, of streaming, of being able to be connected with others whom we may never meet in this life, but it is, dear God, that we have a unity as we are rooted in Christ. So Lord, we also pray for For all those who have their questions, who have their doubts. Dear God, just give them that undeniable sense of your love upon them in spite of that. And dear God as well, we all have that one person in our life, if not more, who has put up these obstacles to who you are as Son of God. Lord, use us in whatever way it you would have us, whether through presentation of this book, ways in which they can serve, ways in which they can dearly love, in order to help them make that choice for your— for you. For it is for the salvation of the world that we ultimately pray, knowing indeed this is in your will and your way. And so we give this to you for God's glory, by the Holy Spirit power, and in the forgiveness, the mercy, the goodness, the love and grace of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[31:02 -> 32:20] Speaker 2: And Father, I just thank you for just using us today to get, to get your word out. Father, I pray that anyone who is listening who wants to just follow you, Lord, I pray they turn away from everything that is keeping them from you. Father, I pray that they ask you to forgive them for their sins, their shortcomings, anything, Lord. I pray that, that you are knocking at their door The door of their heart right now, and that they are just weeping and repenting for the things that they've, that they've done to separate themselves from you, that they are accepting you now as their Lord and Savior, that they are just acknowledging you as, as the Son of God, the one who was born, who, who died, who rose again, and who is the only way back to heaven. So I thank you, Father, that heaven is celebrating for anyone who is praying that prayer right now, Father. Lord, I thank you that today is a day for salvation for anyone who is listening to this who does not know you, Lord. So I thank you in advance for everything you're going to do in that person's life, and I thank you for what you're going to do in our lives and everyone's life at the sound of my voice, Lord. But I pray that you just continue to give us just God-sized vision and just show us the path you want us to be on and how you want us to live out the call you have on our lives. We just pray and ask all of these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

[32:20 -> 32:23] Speaker 1: Amen. Amen. Thank you, Aaron.

[32:23 -> 32:40] Speaker 2: Thank you. And if you have been enjoying our content, please like, follow, share, and subscribe to the Rooted in Christ Podcast. We are on all major podcast platforms. Sister, thank you so much. I will be in touch to do this again. Thank you.